http://jessioriginal.livejournal.com/ (![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png)
jessioriginal.livejournal.com) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
ffdotnetrants2012-05-31 03:06 am
jessioriginal.livejournal.com) wrote in ffdotnetrants2012-05-31 03:06 am
Got a reply-what they said, what I said.
To the mods, please disregard my previous post. I forgot to remove the personal info.
Their reply:Did you even read the rating system within the guideline? If not, please do so.
M rated: Not suitable for children or teens below the age of 16 with possible strong but non-explicit adult themes, references to violence, and strong coarse language.
MA rated: Content is only suitable for mature adults. May contain explicit language and adult themes.
So in answer to your question, a tastefully written love scene that implies but not explicitly describe the sexual act will be fine with an M rating. There are plenty of good examples on the site. There is no denying that there are people who enjoy MA rated stories and are loyal readers/writers. But they are not our targeted users. Thus MA rated stories are not allowed.
One of the goal of this site to help people to become better writers. A properly written story will present a very enjoyable read and truly "unleash the imagination".Zack
My reply:
Of course I've read the guidelines. And I still say your descriptions are vague. Who exactly decides what is appropriate for a certain age? To say my fic is only appropriate for adults is offensive, especially since it was actually co-written with me by a sixteen-year-old, and the reviewers include those both younger and older. The M rating has NEVER been for stories that just imply the more adult stuff. It's always been for stories that are a bit racy, but not extreme. That's why it's the M rating, and that is why it is hidden. If it were just for "implied" stuff, then it wouldn't need to be hidden. My story was perfectly tame and certainly not MA. There is no other place out there for it. It would never be suited to an extreme site like AdultFanfiction.Net, and I would never post it there, especially as most of my readers are too young for that site or are uncomfortable with it.
Of course I've read the guidelines. And I still say your descriptions are vague. Who exactly decides what is appropriate for a certain age? To say my fic is only appropriate for adults is offensive, especially since it was actually co-written with me by a sixteen-year-old, and the reviewers include those both younger and older. The M rating has NEVER been for stories that just imply the more adult stuff. It's always been for stories that are a bit racy, but not extreme. That's why it's the M rating, and that is why it is hidden. If it were just for "implied" stuff, then it wouldn't need to be hidden. My story was perfectly tame and certainly not MA. There is no other place out there for it. It would never be suited to an extreme site like AdultFanfiction.Net, and I would never post it there, especially as most of my readers are too young for that site or are uncomfortable with it.
Your reply is kind of offensive, as you imply my story is not tasetful or properly-written. Did you even read it? It didn't get all those reviews for not being tasteful and properly-written.
And you say that your goal is to help people become better writers and unleash their imagination. But that makes no sense. Why should that then not include more mature stories, like the kind that are too tame for sites like AdultFanfiction, which largely features extremely dark and disturbing stories that involve subject matter many are uncomfortable with. This story was me stepping out of my comfort zone and trying something new and more mature. Seems what you are doing is actually against your goal of making people better writers and helping them unleash your imagination. The more you tighten your guidelines, the more you restrict our imaginations and abilities. As it was, we could not write scripts-the perfect beginning for those not yet ready for descriptive storytelling,-songfics, or interactive stories. And now you are trying to do this? Are you aware this recent purge has a LOT of people planning to just ditch the site and move over to Archive of Our Own? And we're talking members like me who have been around for ages. You are doing wrong by us, and that alone should tell you that you need to reconsider.
Even museums have sections for art that features things like nudity, you know.
I want to become a better writer and unleash my imagination, as well as help others do the same. But your site is currently hampering that by the removal of this story. And I'm sure the many other people emailing you would agree.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-05-31 07:47 am (UTC)(link)I think you might need to let it go and just find a new host. I don't know how descriptive/graphic your story was, but if it was M, seems like their argument will be rating. I'm honestly sorry you lost your story, but they're right with their ratings, and if you thought they were ambiguous, that's not really their problem. http://www.fictionratings.com/ What he copied and pasted on that e-mail is exactly what they've always had on that site. Not knowing the law doesn't impugn people in the real world from the crime, right? Not knowing ratings, not understanding how these things work, or what it properly means to imply and write a graphic scene are things that come with experience. This is probably the experience.
Your argument of who decides what is appropriate for what age doesn't work in context -- that's like asking to just not have a rating system. Obviously the people that own the archive servers get to decide what's appropriate. And yes, many people might leave to AO3, but a lot of people will stay with FF.net. Relatively speaking, the loss in traffic (considering AO3 is still invitation only) will probably not be enough until a while still for them to see how they fucked this up. If anything, AO3 will become more saturated and already it's having problems with people not being able to access it sometimes because of more people coming into the site. Not to mention some of the quality will probably decrease...
I see a lot of people complain, but I think at this point the tone of your e-mail isn't helping, and he really isn't trying to be offensive to you. He's probably frustrated because, hell, I lost a story, too, but I see how their argument is legitimate -- legally legitimate. It would probably work better if you asked for clearer/longer rating descriptions, though I'm sure whoever is in charge of their accessibility department understands the longer it is, the less people that will read things, hence all these rule violations. AF.also doesn't feature just dark or disturbing stories. Some of the scenes very much resemble what you'll find on FF.net. The only difference is many of these people recognized their material as MA. Not to mention that some fandoms on FF.net feature non-con and dark themes, including power-play with sex scenes involved. Your dark and disturbing argument is a bit offensive, actually, because if your argument is 'who decides what's graphic or not?' then your argument of what's disturbing or not is now coming off as kink-shaming. Just saying.
no subject
I should not let this go. None of us should. It's an outrage.
Their ratings are ambiguous, and yes, it is their problem. They don't explain the ratings, then they go around purging massive amounts of stories, claiming they are rated wrong. And as others have pointed out, far more offensive stories are still up.
And as others have pointed out, their email reply to me was condescending and rude, insulting both me and my story. My reply was civil, but firm. And it was well-justified.
no subject
What do they mean by violence its is graphic violence? The violence in Harry potter is pretty extreme can we go that far? Do we use what we see on TV and films and what that is rated as as a guide.
All very conflicting. They need to give some examples becuase even as a mature fanfic writer their ratings are not clear.
It is ironic that so many stories are being removed when a copy of the most offensive fanfic story of all time is still on their site even afer repeated request for it to be removed.
no subject
As an adult with a good understanding of the TV and film rating system I read the rating for M and thought that it covered everything except for some of the way out kinks hard core stuff like B&D,blood play, scrat, and stuff and aimed at what I would expect to find in a romance novel.
I see two issues here.
I'll defined catagory - with no spercific examples of what they mean by M. It says 16 plus.
16 is the age of consent. I read it very carefully before posting and its clear from the comments I've read their understanding is different. Due the large number of cultures who write fanfiction they need to be far more clear.
Indicrimiatory deletions being inconsisently applied. There is a story on ffnet which is stolen and considered the most offensive ff story of all time and even after repeated requests is still showing. (I checked hoping it was gone. Its not sigh) This goes to a great deal of plargised stories that are reported they are never removed. So they need to clean up their act big time.
If they want to purge their site then they need to do so and then keep doing so.
Don't leave it 10 years let anyone post what they like then start deleting.
no subject